We’re back with a Tom Cruise-filled episode! Jump right in to hear us talk about:
- A voice note we got from a listener on *the* infamous Prestige hot take
- What we’ve been watching lately (The Boys Season 3 and some 90s gems)
- Our favourite and least favourite Tom Cruise performances (YOU voted for your favourite pick here)
- The ending of Top Gun: Maverick
Like what you heard? Make sure you subscribe to the podcast wherever you’re listening. AND if you want to show us some extra love, please rate & review. It makes a huge huge difference.
Also, read my essay on Top Gun’s complex legacy but how Tom Cruise’s has remained enduring throughout: https://thatfinalscene.com/blog/top-gun-legacy-may-be-complicated-but-tom-cruises-is-enduring
Films overheard at this episode: Basic Instinct, Night on Earth, Paterson, Coffee & Cigarettes, Magnolia, Tropic Thunder, Risky Business, Mission: Impossible - Rogue Nation, Mission: Impossible 2, Mission: Impossible - Fallout, A Few Good Men, Cocktail, The Mummy, Far And Away, Jack Reacher, Collateral
- Leave us a voice note: www.thatfinalscene.com/voicemessage/
- Sign up to our newsletter: www.thatfinalscene.com/newsletter/
Follow THAT FINAL SCENE on social:
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thatfinalscene
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thatfinalscene
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxZeo-b950d9sxXF_0x5-Wg
- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thatfinalscene
See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.
We see you, we love you, we appreciate you. If you enjoyed what you just listened, please take a second to rate and review our podcast. It makes us keep going 🖤 And if you're feeling generous, share the episode with someone that would appreciate it too.
Sophie: Hello and welcome to another episode of that final scene in podcast. My name is Sophie and I'm joined by. Simon and Ben for a Tom cruise field episode today, we're going to be breaking down the final scene of top gun Maverick though in full transparency.
Doesn't mean months and months explaining complex.
Ben: There isn't much depth. Yes. Maverick ending.
Simon: And the explained,
Sophie: but we'll do our best to keep you entertained. And we're also going to be talking through some of our favorite and least favorite Tom cruise performances. We also put the rankings to a vote for our audience to decide.
So I'm excited to tell through the results, but first of all, Let me just [00:01:00] say the prestigious saga continuous. So for those who are new to the podcast in our very first episode, Ben, there to go on record to say that the prestige is Christopher Nolan's
Ben: best fit. And I still stand by it. I was just thinking about the cast on the way here.
So you've got Hugh Jackman, Christian veil as the two leads. Then you've got Michael Caine, Scarlett Johansson, David Bowie. Andy circus is in there as well. Such a good cast in that movie winner winner winner chicken dinner. There you go.
Sophie: Uh, well it seems that claim things have kind of spiraled on social, but actually just receive the voice note from a listener.
And let me just say that person has very strong opinions on feelings. The prestige is not Christopher Nolan's best film, nowhere near the top five, like the dark night, as long as slate, number one. And then, um, I know how people feel about the dark Knight rises, but that's definitely [00:02:00] better than the prestige.
And then you got like interstellar and then suction and heck even dunker. I liked the prestige, but I put it towards like the bottom on
Ben: CRISPR rules, but it doesn't say me too hard because I'm inclined to D I, obviously I disagree, but I love how passionate. I mean, he did send us another one where he kind of like turned it down, but I'm like, no, give me like your full, passionate rage about which Christopher Nolan film is your favorite one.
I stick by my guns. Interesting that he didn't mention that. He's called them all out except tenant there. And, um, what's that first one in the boat where the guy keeps forgetting things. Memento didn't mention memento either, which is a very
Sophie: good film. Uh, Zane, he didn't mention them in terms of, well,
Ben: just didn't bring them up.
But the fact that the fact that he throws like Dunkirk in as a throw and was like, oh, even Dunkirks that good, but it doesn't mention tenant or
Sophie: memento when it comes to Penn. It, I don't think could be anyone's favorite NOLA.
Ben: No, I don't think it'll be anyone's favorite and listen, don't get me wrong. The dark nights.
Yeah, it's a fantastic film.
Simon: It's tenant about, it's not about tenants.
Ben: [00:03:00] It's not super, but actually, you know what? It might've been a better film if it had been no, it's a weird, like a time reversing kind of science fiction film that is so confusing and doesn't really answer any of the questions it poses
Simon: all of his films are kind of time-related.
Sophie: Oh, yeah, he's obsessed
Ben: with time and it's, it's very good. You know? Um, is it John David Washington is really good in it as the, as the lead. And we have a lovely Kenneth Brianna bizarre Russian accent in the film, which is chef's kiss. And, uh, Robert Pattinson I'm in the, you know, the pat Hassan says keeps going with that one.
I think he's really good at it, but yeah, it's not going to trouble anyway. Listen, sometimes I do say inflammatory things like that. So if you do disagree with
Sophie: please let me know, just to remind everyone we are taking your voice messages, right? So send us your whole takes and does your worst or best impression of Christopher Walken we're going to play most likely send us your questions.
And this is your final scene [00:04:00] suggestions, right? Just go through that. Dot com slash voice message. Right. Um, please do not DME your voice notes or a pin download from Instagram. Thank you. Go to the website record and display it. Uh, we might just feature it in the following episode
Ben: and be as passionate as possible.
Let us know, like, that's the great thing about this. This thing that I've really enjoyed doing this podcast is that would the three of us get to be like as passionate as possible about these movies. So, you know, please, you know, use it as an outlet. This is a great outlet for us to
Simon: reach out. Dude for recording that message, but you never said who you
Yes. I sincerely hope you had pulled over cause you're clearly in a car as well. So I hope you're not recording voice notes on your phone while driving on the highway.
Sophie: We appreciate the candor though.
Ben: Yes, we definitely do.
Simon: Maybe it could be like a ranting in the car section. It's like perfect for long traffic jams and stuff.
Ben: in the car session.
Sophie: Oh, session teases. [00:05:00] Okay, cool. I need some sleep. No, I liked it. Can I say something?
Ben: Don't you get
Sophie: about it? Simon, you've been watching a ton of.
Simon: Well, I watched basic instinct.
Ben: Oh yes. Which yeah,
Sophie: golden nugget.
Simon: I'm really surprised that you liked it. I love it. It's basically a soft porn film.
Sophie: Yeah, exactly. That's why I like . What did you know about the film
Simon: before the leg cross scene? That's all you need. Yeah. And the control of Sierra and that, and that space
Ben: are they? How many stars out of 10?
Simon: Um, eight.
Ben: Oh, that's pretty
Simon: high, but the bit that I liked, most of all in the opening scene, there's a lady, the bed of blonde hair, the rockstars like tied up on the bed and then this guys gets murdered really briefly with an ice pack.
And then afterwards, all the police pilot there, they come into the room and they're all the cops are like coming around, like checking the room, dusting for prints and [00:06:00] stuff. And one guy gets this torch out to look for like, just stay in the bed
Ben: until you can see, it felt like an ultra violet.
Simon: And you can see it happening.
And you're just like, okay. And then one guy gets some goggles out and starts looking. And then out of nowhere, this line comes in,
Sophie: let's come steals all over the sheets.
Simon: It's literally unnecessary script line I've ever heard in my life. I
Ben: feel like that's, that's an improv. That's the guy that says. And you, and you say something, whatever it is, you say anything.
And he's just went for a couple of circumstances
Sophie: all over the
Ben: shoots. He tries like, well, could break those sheets over your need. Now that doesn't work. You need to go something else, something more visceral, something different. It's just like
Simon: as completely out of place in the whole film. Like most of the rest of the script is fine, but that line was just completely, it was like something, a big mouth.
It was like a cartoon like south park or something. Yeah. Apart from that, the films really good fun. So I recommend you watch it, but you
Ben: gonna watch the sequel. Is there a secret there's a basic [00:07:00] instinct to, yeah. I think so. Yeah.
Sophie: It's a, yeah. Kmart 19.
Ben: Yeah. It's an older one
Simon: as well. Yeah. So watch that. And then, uh, what else?
They watch Magnolia on the tongue cruise tip. Nice.
Sophie: Had you seen it before you had seen it before it, no, you hadn't. Okay. Wow.
Simon: Loved it. I think it's my favorite ever film that has done cruising it. Have you seen it, but no,
Ben: I've not seen McDonald's.
Simon: It's interwoven stories of people in really difficult circumstances.
Yes. It's got Phillip Seymour Hoffman in it. It was a good sign and it's got quite a mad ending. Well, not spoil it. If you're gonna watch it,
Ben: I'm gonna watch it.
Sophie: So don't John C. Reilly so good at it as well. It's too dark to me like his performance, because he's usually like Danzy Riley. So he actually shows up in Magnolia Juliana more.
Isn't it. Um, so yeah.
Simon: I never thought say this in my life, stand up performance in that film is Tom cruise by miles. And he plays this absolutely horrific motivational speaker, Frank, and he's got a program called [00:08:00] what's it called a seducing destroy. He goes on stage and he whips up all these men that can't get girlfriends into front.
Yeah. But it's really horrific
Simon: It's worth watching just for that. Cause it's so funny and so outrageous. Oh,
Ben: Well, I'll add that to the list of understand of the other Tom cruise films. I need to watch, I feel like I'm just going to go on like a Tom cruise marathon this week.
Sophie: I've been doing exactly that and you will not.
I mean, I know, you know that you're not gonna,
Ben: no, I'll start with the mission impossible marathon, which is always satisfying. And then go on to the heavier topics like Magnolia and the
Sophie: last summer, I feel like you have to address. Soundbar like your, or your sounds like system for films, like mission impossible.
I want them as loud as possible.
Ben: Um, absolutely blasting them apart from the second one, which I tend to just turn off because it's
Sophie: not great. I feel like he slept through his lines saying that field crews just
Ben: don't quit. Randomly has Anthony Hopkins in it as like his new, his new boss. And it's just went through a little bit way or.[00:09:00]
I think the third one's good. I enjoyed the third one with Philip Seymour Hoffman as the bad guy. It's not the best one, but it's still good. And then they just. I gave it a couple of years, hired Chris from recording, which is the best partnership Tom cruise. It seems as they ever had to, sorry, Katie Holmes co-writer guide.
So actually I noticed that in the credits on the executive producers, on Maverick as well, he's written and directed some of the last few mission, impossible films. And he's, he just, he seems to work with Tom cruise quite a lot where craves is hit this really kind of sweet patch of really good action
And the other one I watched was. Not on earth because our friend Sam recommended it. And I
Ben: fucking love that, which we're going to hopefully do for fun teens. Yeah.
Simon: That's your homework this week? Yes. Yeah. It's Jim or Jim Jones.
Sophie: It's so hard to yeah. Pronounce his name, but that's the guy two of my favorite films from him.
One coffin cigarettes. You're going to love that Simon to Patterson with Adam driver. Cool
Ben: setting. Good [00:10:00] film. So what have you been watching?
Sophie: Uh, just a bunch of Tom crus films really it's been going down the cruise
Ben: rabbit hole. Should we give a little mention to the boys? Yes.
Sophie: Do you want to go, do you want to go first?
Ben: Because I mean, we can, well, all I'll say is, is that I love it and it's great that it's back. But the opening episode has one of the, I have never felt more squeamish than one of the opening scenes. Would you like me to talk about it? Spoiler alert for the openings for the album. So what you're talking about, so the boys is an Amazon prime series and since it's third season there, which is basically the boys are a group of guys who.
Have there's these superheroes in the world who are actually just kind of all our souls and they're led by this guy called Homeland or who is the RSL of all our. And that's these group out to get them, the boys who were just like, we listen, we think superheroes are dickheads. So we want to show them more for who they are and basically try and kill them.
So it's this like hyper kind of stylized violent show. And the opening episode of season three has something that I found out is, is actually an [00:11:00] homage to, uh, theories of ant man and fan. Wow. So basically around the time of kind of the Avengers, when Thanos was the big, scary thing, everybody said, why there was a theory online of why wouldn't ant man just shrink himself down, climb inside Dionysus ass and then just expand themselves to make it explode.
And there's basically a scene in the opening scene of the boys, season three, where this guy, he can shrink himself down to the size of a termite and to pleasure his boyfriend. He goes. Yeah. Yes. He goes inside his boyfriend's penis. And while he's in there, he accidentally sneezes and makes himself go full size again while he's inside him.
So basically just like the guy exploded and it's possibly the most uncomfortable I've ever felt like Julie had to like cross my legs and be like, oh, I'm comfortable yet satisfying climax. I am enjoying it. Me and Sophie had a bit of a chat before you got here. And my kind of take on this season is I think it's good.
I'm enjoying it, but I am worried that they're just kind of getting into the like [00:12:00] every season is just. Be the same. Homelanders a Dick, but he's unstoppable. He does something really bad then gets put in this place. So I'm, I'd be interested to see how they kind of break
Sophie: out of that. Exactly. They need to deliver bake with soldier.
Boy, they need to do something creative with
Ben: him. Lovely gentlemen, what the fuck? Soldier boy in America. It's not related to the, not that. No, not, no, not soldier. Please spell completely differently.
Sophie: I can see them playing without though, because it's a very like pop culture, like Mehta
Ben: friends, I'm doing, what is it?
The suit, the Superman movies and all that kind of stuff,
Simon: tell him.
Ben: Yeah. That's so
Sophie: funny, but sorry. So what are your thoughts on it? No, I just retweet and everything you just said.
It's still very early. We've only seen three [00:13:00] episodes. Right? Uh, the only thing that I was going to say is I was expecting. Soldier the soldier to have made the plumber proper entrance earlier on in the season because we're three episodes in. And so far we've only seen him in flashbacks. I'm not sure where they're going with this.
Um, yeah, what's this space. We're going to have more reactions as the episodes, as
Ben: it inevitably gets weirder and weirder
Sophie: back to my town cruise marathon. Anyway. Watching a bunch of his films. Some of them I've seen before. Some others. I hadn't the first one. If you're a good man, I seen ages ago, I saw
Simon: on your good goodness.
Sophie: was your, that was your good, bad, um,
Ben: hang over there.
Simon: Oh, but it's so watchable.
Sophie: That's what
Simon: I was going to say. So this very clear goodies and baddies as well, classic
Sophie: Tom cruise through there's no gray. No, no, that's the exception. Yeah. There's exception. But he wasn't producing [00:14:00] like at the time that's clearly a PTA, like a Paul Thomas Anderson.
Most of you. I'm like, don't, don't quote me on that. But I felt like Magnolia was the, one of the first departures that he had from like a career progression point of view, because he wanted to get out of the. What's the word. Yeah, he was, he was quickly getting thought yeah. At the time. So he wanted to kind of break out of that anyway, if you're good, man, I really like similar to you.
Like it's very possible though. I'm going to say that. I feel like it gets really good after the trial starts. Like the second half of the film, the first half, I'm like a bunch of wars that don't understand, like, yeah. Anyway, I also watched Raymond. Have you seen rain, man? No, I'm sure you've seen that's in health months, performance somewhere because it's, I mean, she won an Oscar for his performance because he was playing an autistic person and it was one of the, it was probably at the time it was the most popular depiction of an autistic person, which has its fair [00:15:00] share of problems.
And it still does to this day because it felt very stereotypical back then. But at the same time I've been reading up on this Dade sparks. And new wave of research around the area because he goes to popular and like raise like a lot of awareness around the condition. What I'm going to say is a Tom cruise actually really good in that film.
And I feel like everyone forgets about him in the film because Hoffman is so famous for what he did. So I really liked the fact that in that film he's playing his brother and I like how his arc feels quite realistic. He goes from. Infuriated with his brother to almost be wilderness to understanding. So again, like it feel good film.
Ultimately the other Tom cruise found the last time where I, another lake maybe problematic film. White savior at its best and added to worse at the same time, it is a guilty pleasure of mine because I do love it.
Ben: Like a lot of comments are in the Instagram [00:16:00] page. A lot of people brought up the last samurai as well as
Sophie: like of their face.
It's a fan favorite for sure. Yeah. The score is incredible. Probably the best thing about the film, the problematic issue with it is that the premise of the film is, is a white guy that goes to a bunch of summarize this on how to be a better summer.
Ben: Because white, because white men really know how to do summarize.
Sophie: Yeah, exactly. So it's like, yeah, there are definitely issues there. But at the same time, he has been praised for its positive cultural representation, because it does let you know, like cultures be cultures in a way.
Ben: Good Lord.
Sophie: Ari wants top gun.
Uh, just because like in prep for Maverick, I don't like that film.
Ben: No, I have to say one of the, one of the best things about Maverick is that I feel like you don't really have to have seen Topcon because there's, there's kind of so much kind of exposition in the dialogue every five minutes that you don't really need to have seen it.[00:17:00]
Simon: These nostalgia Setons where every room they go into. Photos in the background
Ben: of Tom cruise and Val Kilmer.
Simon: Yeah. They did like a slow pan until one of them. See, you know, that, that was from the
Sophie: previous film. They have sculpture the film in a way that you don't need to have seen the original for short, just so they can bring the younger demographic as well.
But I do think you lose some of the new ones, right? Like you lose a good storyline. Oh, of course. Yeah. And like, yeah. Even the opening, like the title cards is like your star wars on earth. That's what comes on is about,
Ben: well, we'll talk, we'll talk, I'll talk about the final scene, but even just one of the ending bits with one of the planes is a big call back to the original movie that you really appreciate.
If you've seen the original.
Sophie: It's hard to pick a favorite Tom cruise film, but I feel like it's even harder to pick a least favorite Tom cruise. Cause
Ben: there's quite a few. That's the problem.
I feel like the wounds that we've come up with on our lists, like far and away the mommy, [00:18:00]
Sophie: but the thing is like the, the issue with his films, which we're going to talk about in a second is that there, I feel like there are only two types of Tom cruise films, the films that he plays on cruise in the film that he plays the card.
Yeah. So, so I feel that that's the way to approach it. So anyway, that said, we all have different tastes, right? So me, Ben, Simon picked one Tom cruise performance that we think is genuinely good. One performance from him that we key and joy, but it's best enjoyed and hung over on Sunday. Yeah. Exactly. And one Tom cruise performance that we thought was truly awful.
And what we did was we put our pigs live on my Instagram stories and we asked the community to vote for their favorite ranking. So we're going to announce the results in a second drum roll, but why don't we go around, talk about our pigs for. Simon do you want to go first? Good, good
Simon: was Magnolia, which we talked about.
Good, bad. A few good men. Easy to watch. Very clear. Good is embodies. Nice [00:19:00] resolution job. Done hung over Sunday. Bad bad chat, reach our client. Remember what happens in it was so dreadful. I turned it off.
Ben: I will say I don't mind. And Jack Reacher too much. I didn't think it was that bad. It's a solid five or six at a time.
Simon: I mean, I could have put cocktail for that, but
it's like, as you'd say it's problematic.
Sophie: Yeah, Ben was where your pigs I'll
Ben: go bad, bad first, just cause there's not much to say about it. Cause it is just so crap is the moment. It's just a terrible medicine. Not a good film at all. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think it's Warner brothers, but they were trying to do, oh, we're going to do this.
Universe of like the monster. So it was going to be like Dracula, Dr. Jacquelyn, Mr. Holly, the mommy, the werewolf. And they're going to make all these films and they were all going to exist within one another, like this Marvel movies and it fell on its are so badly, there was that's
Simon: because anything that involves the word franchise, I don't want to watch it.
It's just corporate. [00:20:00] Well,
Ben: this dread. Yeah. Well, this was the worst of that. Um, my good, bad one is tropics on. Which again, incredibly problematic if you want
Ben: get it. Robert Downey Jr. Robert I won't even go into it. You
Simon: said that I really enjoy it. What does that mean to me? I don't know. W there'll be
Sophie: there'll be fair.
Yeah. To be fair. I think there is. I mean, we could have an episode just on that, but I do feel like there is space for comedy to be. Not politically correct. Right. I don't feel like that's what art is like that that's arts purpose. And I do feel like if here it was the film, like maybe there are some nods to the entire, like nonsense being fairly
Yeah. And it's, and it's just pointing, it's just pointing the finger at the film industry and just being like, you're really fucking stupid basically, you know, just being like, these are all the kind of things. The things that actors do and producers, and actually, that's why I really like it because when tropics under [00:21:00] came out, kind of, I think it was like 2008 around that time.
That was kind of when we had Tom cruise and he was in this weird kind of space where there was like the kind of Scientology stuff and like his public image probably wasn't as good as it is now. Like Tom perhaps has public image right
Simon: now COVID outburst, which I thought he ended up
Ben: quite good at what he did because he, because it was just him joining to like, The film and stuff, which is, you know, that's the whole, the great thing is, is that in Tropic thunder, he just comes out and it's kind of like, it's completely unexpected.
He's in a fat suit. He's wearing a ball cap. All he does is swear and say offensive things. Like it's very not Tom cruise. So it's quite yet.
Sophie: That's really interesting. The perception, the public perception is consider
Ben: that. I think it's quite interesting because if you think of what his public perception was at that time, To then for him to go, I'm just going to completely take the piss out of myself.
Now that's still went a little bit, way word for a film that could have gone into bad battles when he did things like rock of ages, which is like, you just, you just didn't eat father.
Sophie: Um, and then he was hot. I mean, that was when I was saying [00:22:00] attractive.
Ben: I think Tom cruises, I would say Tom cruise is the fact that his age, the shape that he's in God, Jesus Christ chiseled at his age.
It's ridiculous. And then, yeah, my good, good would be, uh, I was torn between mission impossible, rogue nation, and fallout. And I went for rogue nation just because it's where I feel like recently they've really hit their stride with like, Really fucking solid action movies. They brought Rebecca Ferguson into it as, as a kind of a character in the story, which is really good.
Simon peg obviously is playing a much bigger role now and he's really good in it. Alec Baldwin was really good in it as well. Kind of one surprisingly kind of surprisingly and yeah, obviously that let leads in. You don't have fall out with our rogue nation. So we went for road nation. Very good. Excellent.
That's my three.
Sophie: So I went for. Tom cruise in collateral as one of my best, not my best, his best performances. It's a film by Michael Mann, 2004. He's playing an assassin. His name [00:23:00] is Vincent from correct. And he's playing opposite Sammy Fox. It's a Neo noir thriller that you wouldn't see Tom cruise in. Tom cruise.
Right. So I do feel like it's part of maybe that rebranding at the time that he was kind
Ben: of doing, yeah. It's a, quite a stylish. I remember watching it years ago. It's a very stylish film. It's a cool premise as well.
Sophie: Have you seen heat? I love hate. It's just, yeah. It's my Michael man. So how's, that kind of feels like he builds the most incredible visual world.
So like, I feel like that's, uh, exactly
Simon: the heat with the piano.
Sophie: So good. Yeah. They're my goods. Less bad hangover. Film is risky business to watch the did. Okay. This is literally my hangover found though. I have to say. Usually what's the entire film when I'm a hangover. I just go in and watch the dancing.
Ben: I'm just going to say, you just watch up until the dance and then you leave it at that because
Sophie: you have like Tom cruise in like buttoned down, sir, tube socks, dancing to what it's [00:24:00] like old time rock and roll. And you're like, that's what I needed in my life. Yeah. That's the thing with Cruz. I feel like he's always been great at physical comedy.
And it's a shame, but he hasn't used that kind of talent or that
Ben: yeah, he's got very good. He's got good timing for like someone who's just like an action hero. He actually has quite good comedic timing. Yeah.
Sophie: Anyway. Now when it comes to a bad tone, gross performance, I went with far in a way. Ben. I feel like I need to have this over to you, but like just that Irish, like dreadful accent is all you need
Ben: is horrendous.
It's so bad. Hello,
Sophie: grace. Hello, Joseph. Will I be you in church tomorrow?
Ben: we could share a POB in you.
Simon: to you,
Ben: but just don't even try. He's got enough.
Sophie: Your last chest. If you gone to church,
Ben: shut it. Well, Chester equal in the eyes of the Lord shall
Ben: come out. [00:25:00] Trump. I please. She's a dancer in the birdie enjoying it. I just am
Sophie: dancing. That's kicking her knickers off typically with Western in a way like peer the Western Romans, whatever, like the film by itself.
It's not awful. Like I think the premise is kind of, okay. So they go from Ireland to America. In an effort to claim some free land
Ben: somewhere. Yeah. It's like one of these kind of period piece things of like, they leave the west of Ireland to go to America and like the 18 hundreds or the early 19
Sophie: hundreds, or, and he gets into fights and he loses like a bunch of fights and then they end up broke and it's a mess and the kind of get together.
But then they're like,
Ben: it's higher Irish,
Sophie: it's a meetup accent, which they're like, this is why I kind of find it entertaining because.
Dipsy, but it's not even
Ben: like I get it back [00:26:00] in like the nineties when like Tom cruise is hot shit and he's the cool young actor, but pleased it stopped doing it. Now. Orland has built up a good enough reputation to have that have actual actors in it. Like, good. It'll be a ground that we're going to work.
Simon: is like a big conversation because like G. Gay people to only play gay people, autistic people don't participate. People who are blind people to only play blind people. I think
Ben: that's different. That's different to doing accents is to know,
Simon: like I was watching, um, where the taxi driver picks up a blind lady and they looked her up and she's not blind in real life.
She's a famous French actress. I'm
Sophie: somewhere in the middle in that camp where I'm like, I'm kind of okay with people doing accents, as long as they do the work. Like basically Tom cruise, didn't do the word. Like, he just didn't do the work.
Ben: That might be his best shot. Yeah. But that's the thing. And I think he had
Sophie: two weeks.
Ben: Yeah. And maybe, maybe I'm completely wrong about this, but maybe some people will back me up. I think the Irish accent is very difficult for a lot of people. Like even English actors, who've done Irish accents. It comes up like conversations with friends, which is on BBC three at the minute, [00:27:00] Joe Alwyn who's playing the leads is an English actor and he's playing and, uh, going from Dublin from like five minutes from where I grew up watched the first episode.
And all I'm thinking is, oh God,
Sophie: My problem, I guess where my issue when it comes to these things, and there's no casting, it's not even about like political correctness about like, there are certain demographics that have already limited opportunities, right? So even like Irish people, like they're not going to be able to get costed for every single role, because they're limited by their accent to an extent, unless they can do an incredible American accent, which is fair game.
But then you have like a disabled person who can like. The finish and they can only play disabled roles because they can't stand up. Right. So like, why have non-disabled actors like play disabled roles when you kind of take away that limited opportunity that already exists in that. Right. Yeah, exactly.
So just like play fair, play fair. You guys come on, Tom. I think he learned his lesson,
Simon: disabled Irish people. [00:28:00]
Sophie: I think he learned his lesson. I think you stayed like he's like he stayed through it that he's American. Like,
Ben: I suppose there's, there's supposedly I'm an old story, but while they were filming that in Ireland that he was almost beaten up.
'cause he lent over the bar to grab some ice or something like that. And the guy, an old man at the bar grabbed him. Cause he thought he was trying to steal the barman cigarettes. Tried to beat him up. Yeah. So
Sophie: the big reveal. Yes. Who warned, how did our audience rank our rankings? FYI? When we asked people to vote, we didn't disclose who picked Watts.
So we tried to be as fair as possible. So Ben for your pigs, like we need some kind of.
I like that. Ben, for your picks, 77% of the audience agreed. That's a good number. It's a very good number. And 23% of the audience disagreed. That's not too bad at all from a couple of messages I got and get ready for this. I think there is some covert mommy [00:29:00] fans out there.
Ben: Um, uh, maybe, maybe they're making the same mistake that you did that they think it's the Brendan Fraser.
Mommy, what you sold? I forgive you. It was
Sophie: like a backup Simon for your pigs.
61% of the audience agreed. And 39 of the audience agreed. I think you hit the soft spot for the many people out there who absolutely love a few good men. Um, yeah. Had a lot of people respond back to that. Story say, oh my God. No. What are you talking about? If you're a good man, it's the best film ever.
Good. Bad. Yeah. I think that's what maybe got you.
Simon: Yeah, but I mean, if you've got Magnolia and if you give men, you're not going to lose God with a good, good,
Sophie: that's true. That's true. I'm not, I'm not disagreeing. I
Ben: just think like maybe pigeonholed yourself with the list.
Sophie: Yeah. And for my pigs, [00:30:00] 84%,
16% of the people. These agreed. I think that dreadful Irish accent. Want me to pull? I have to say, because I had so many people say I'm going to far and away. So wars film ever. And I think people on my page anyway, have a soft spot for collateral. That is that kind of like underground cult, favorite that many people don't know about, but the ones that do feel very strongly about it.
Anyway, that was. It didn't hurt that I won, but I wanna, like, I want us to keep doing this. Like we can,
Simon: and we find out more about you guys at home. What you like, what you don't like.
Sophie: Yeah. To the people listening. Uh, send us your suggestions on any games or debates you want us to take on next?
Ben: Yeah, let's take a quick break.
Before we come back with spoilers for top gun Maverick,
Simon: look a message from our sponsor.
Ben: I [00:31:00]
Sophie: can't wait to see what's up. Y'all want some of this without much further to go again. We're back after that, you know, intense Tom cruise field special. So final scene for top gun Maverick. It's interesting. I feel like it's almost on the real that we're talking about.
The top gun sequel, right? My dad was obsessed with top gun and. We're like 36 years later and we talk about CQL. It just feels a bit unreal to me weirdly
Ben: though it feels like the right time to have done it. I feel like if they had done a tough straight after, it just would have been the same thing. Uh, we'll talk about it because they've let it like grow a little bit and like character, like miles tellers and stuff.
Actually, it's a better time to have done it in a way, like an older Maverick is much more interesting than just top gun two he's back for more flights, equities, you know, it actually gives me more depths
Sophie: to, yeah. They definitely waited [00:32:00] for the right time and the right story to come. So to give you guys a bit of a recap, top gun Maverick picks up the story of the original top gun.
After more than 30 years, Maverick continues to be in service as one of the Navy stop aviators, where he belongs. Pushing the envelope in mission, impossible, arrogance level style with all sorts of test pilots and those in the advancement in their ranks though, he could easily have that, but I feel like that's an interesting plot point.
It could have been Admiral
Simon: by now easily lowly captain
Sophie: he's frozen in time. It's just like Tom cruise
Ben: where he's right where he needs.
Sophie: Exactly. In any case early on in the film, he finds himself training a detachment of top gun graduates for a specialized mission that some people called suicide mission in that film.
If I remember correctly
Ben: kind of indirectly causes
Sophie: yeah. By the way, don't harm me so good at the end of the time,
Ben: the another star wars [00:33:00] memes of like, you know, but you're going to do it. Right. That type thing where it's like, But they're going to come back. Right? Part of the mission is to bring them back.
Right. And you're like, stop, fight
Sophie: fear, man. And then this group of young pilots, Maverick encounters, Lieutenant Bradley Bradshaw, what the healer, his name, uh, played by miles teller, uh, called signer rooster. Who is the son of Maverick's late friend gurus who died. Tragically and be original top gun. Yeah.
That's the thing that very clever from their own, the film's aspirins in a fascinating way. Like for me, the third act was the strongest one. We see Maverick facing a future that doesn't quite want him. I thought that was very sweet and confronting the ghost of his past while he's also called to move past some of his own deepest fears.
This all culminates in a mission that demands. 1000% from the pilots that are involved in eight. Exactly. [00:34:00] And we arrive at the third act of the film.
Simon: they in Russia? They never disclosed. These are disclosed where it
Ben: is, but it's kind of
Sophie: an Iraq Uranian mission. Like Rainium,
Ben: they're going to,
Sophie: I need
subtitles. You're right. Like the enemy was faced with.
Simon: Yeah, because I kept thinking I'd missed something like I'd fallen asleep or something and
Sophie: they never, they never read that
Simon: case. Putin gets crossed. Yeah. It's the classic Hollywood points in a story arc where it gets towards the end of the film and the goodies are at the point of no return.
Ben: believe Maverick is dead. Yeah. He gets shut down rooster and Phoenix. And the other pilots are told comeback and rooster says
Simon: no. And then out of nowhere, They managed to steal a enemy plane from the enemy base
Ben: the help of rooster rooster comes back from and then get himself shot [00:35:00] down there.
Wasn't a dog fight.
Ben: then what happens after the dog fight, they go back to the pilot and they all have fabulous embraces on the deck. Yeah. And then they
Sophie: come back to the pilot. Yeah. I mean the final scene is pretty simple. I almost feel like, because I tried, I tried to memorize depending on the scene because I knew we're were going to talk about it.
It's like a montage of like short scenes,
Ben: like reunions.
Sophie: The very, very final shot is actually moderating, looking back at the photograph that he keeps up his hangar with.
Ben: Before that we see rooster looking at the photos as well. And now there's the photo of Maverick and rooster on the, on the board
Sophie: as exactly.
So Danny for Connolly's character where they kind of, which, by the way, I read that in that scene, it was actually Tom cruise flying the plane. Not that I'm surprised, but I disgraced.
Ben: Yeah. I'm not surprised that yeah, he did that with James Corden, like two weeks ago. He in, in that,
Sophie: but Simon, I know you mentioned earlier with, I agree that the whole penny, well, that's your name?
And the film storyline was quite weak. To Jennifer [00:36:00] Connell's credit. I feel like she took like a very weekly written character and an attorney and turning something into a bit stronger, but like sometimes it's forced and again, like is what you said. Like it's a very like Hollywood and being that somehow every single scene who Julie's single white man in, like in this sort of action means to have a love interest.
Like he can't go without bolted on. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Two thoughts on that? I feel like as you mentioned, ban, like ending with. Good. This is what the film was ultimately all about. That like is a tribute to the friendship and like the commitment that comes with that friendship and like the act of letting go, because I, I watched the original Topcon recently.
The very final scene is actually the loving trust. It, Kelly McGillis his character at the time, which at the diner, if you remember, and like have like classic Hollywood kiss moment, and then that's the film, which I felt like was the wrong ending because. [00:37:00] The film wasn't about these two, the film was about
Ben: it's the Iceman and Maverick handshake in the deck, or the hug is like, that's where it 100%.
I know you say so many clean of fell a little bit flat, but I think if you take the film as a whole, it couldn't have ended in any other way, because the whole film is just high-fiving action. Like really happy endings and kind of like, I just walked out of. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. I'd like, I'm good.
yeah, that is true. If it had just ended that Maverick's dads and they hadn't had that whole kind of secret fourth act where restrict comes back to get them,
Sophie: I would have hated that.
Ben: I was thinking exactly. I was sitting there thinking, fuck, if they tried to do like a cool drama thing where Maverick's dad already gets fucking, he's a pow or something and they have to pay to get him back, it'd be stupid.
But the fact that rooster goes back and I have to. One of my favorite miles that are performances. I think he is great as that character, but also plays itself [00:38:00] like clearly goose a song. You know, he does a really great job at not like trying to imitate goose from the first one, but plays it really well.
That he's his son, like it's really believable. And the relationship between him and Tom cruise is really good. And also the fact that they all did those fucking planes, drones in real life is ridiculous.
Sophie: That was kind of my next question. Would you have ended the film differently? And I know Simon, you said that you would probably like cut it off a bit earlier and you Ben think that that was a perfect way to end the
I think I just would've changed it around once. I would have ended it with the bit where you see rooster going up to the collage and seeing himself seeing the photo. Maverick and goose, and then seeing the photo of Maverick and rooster. I think that is probably the right place. Then I think you can have the Jennifer Connelly thing in there because it's nice to get like, it's nice to give Maverick a happy ending.
Sophie: To be fair. Like it's less about her because that's not your story. It's Maverick stories. Yeah. He kind of yet he gets his happy
Ben: and it's, it's this whole thing of changed for him. And like the, you know, the whole relationship with Jennifer Connolly is, [00:39:00] and like even the little girl Emedia says it to him is like, just don't break her heart again, which I love that scene when he falls out the window catches always with her, I thought it was brilliant.
And she's like, just don't break her heart again. The whole thing is that Maverick wouldn't end up with her and he would run off and he would do something and he'd just be going flying planes. So actually to just give him that ending is really nice, which is, you know, we were mentioning would there be a top on.
I kind of help there wouldn't be, I don't need another one. I'm happy knowing that Maverick is happy and I'm just good at that. We're good with that. You know, and that I know Tom cruise is happy because I feel like Maverick is probably like Maverick fields of all of Tom Cruise's performances. Maverick feels like the one that is just like Tom cruise, kind of doing, you know, being himself because in that
Simon: scene that you said you liked with Jen, Jennifer Connolly's daughter Penny's daughter.
Yeah. I thought cynically that there perhaps setting up her to be the next top gun. Oh, you know, the ending sequence right there in Tom Cruise's hangar where he's like polishing up his whole plane
Ben: and he sees the little girls
Simon: and he sees the little girl in the [00:40:00] gap. And I think that is the moment they're setting her up to be the next important character in the franchise they could be, but
Ben: they'd need to wait 20 years.
Sophie: I was reading an interview from one of the key producers. And he was saying how they kept going back to Tony Scott to pitch him like an idea for a sequel. And she kept turning them down. Like, no, no, no, no, no. And they finally got it right when, when they brought up the whole arc about goos and like the sun, like storyline, how this could go.
And Tony Scott said, okay, It was a very first time that he was like, okay, I'm receptive to where this is going. And they had some early conversations and then he killed himself. Even for that, I feel like they, they wouldn't have done Maverick if they hadn't gotten some sort of affirmation, like Bose information from Scott.
So my, my gut tells me that there's not going to be a top gun three because it just doesn't work in any shape or form. That's a, there have been people out there. There are. Hey, [00:41:00] Cruz has two films left with mission impossible. Then his is kind of clear
Ben: and he likes, now he's doing the space movie, isn't he?
It's not as next. It's not as next big thing. Um, as, as
Sophie: you only get kind of clear as you know, like he's not going to be in back to backs with like mission impossible has taken his entire life five years. So he has a bit of scope. So in theory, he could explore top gun three, but. For me, it would either have to be some shirt of like course, if blade from paramount because of the box office success, right?
Like to this day, Tom Cruise's highest grossing film to date. Uh, it already has like over 600 million the box office. So there's that, but for whatever reason, like I know we talked about Tom cruise, uh, this entire episode, there is something about him that feels very. Wholesome and that he's very, he really represents integrity.
I don't think he could bust her, dies the film, the leg [00:42:00] legacy, like start a franchise for the sake of
Ben: just, I think you're more likely to get a series. Series
Sophie: with, like, for example.
Ben: Yeah. You could do like, or like just a general, like a top gun. Like, I feel like more so than doing a movie. If they were to move on from Cruz, you're more likely to get them to like a Hulu.
Sophie: Okay. So we're almost at the end, but I just want to quickly shout out the ed credit song that Simon have you had strong feelings about lady Gaga's whole, my house. I didn't even know it was lady Gaga.
Ben: I'm surprised that the start, when the credits came up with this, the score is by Hans Zimmer. Someone else in lady
Sophie: Gaga, lady Gaga is a perfect choice for like heavy homoerotic energy.
Isn't it. If you think about it, the hard Dick for the born this way, baby new leg of the song
Simon: hyper cheesy,
Ben: but that's the whole point of the movie. It was the perfect level of G. Yeah. If you had told me, when we, when we started doing this podcast, we looked at the schedule like we're going to do Dr.
Strange everything everywhere. All at once. And Topcon, I never would have [00:43:00] been thinking in my head. She's just topicals are going to be so much better than boxers range. I'm such a big Marvel fan. It's brilliant. Like it is so good if you want, like it's over two hours long, but I will say it doesn't actually feel it literally.
It doesn't actually feel it because you do just spend most of your time being like, fuck him out. Like just watching kind of how amazing it is. And every now and again, wanting to just like high five, the person next to you and see me like, like it's it's yeah. I just thought it was great. I loved that. I thought it was great.
Simon: Yeah. I tried not to like it, but I really liked I'm black.
Ben: He said that because I'm glad you said that time, because coming into this, I was like, oh God, if someone hasn't liked it, I'm going to be really disappointed. But I'm glad you said that, that it's going to kind of, when you over. Because I think it will.
I think it will do that for a lot of people. I think a lot of people are going to go into it quite cynically saying the old top gun. It's just like this one, it's
Ben: cheesy. The floats sequences look terrible, all this stuff. Cause like I was, I just gotten into a hole of watching like videos on YouTube of like[00:44:00]
and they're all like the original Tompkins. Terrible. We watched it. I, I wants
Simon: to Google. That, that stealth plane was beginning, but it's just not real. It's not real,
Ben: but apparently they're supposedly they were spied on, but the Chinese government, because they thought it was real Lockheed Martin made it with them.
It's but it's like a prototype thing, but yeah, I think a lot of people will go into the film thinking it's just going to be like the original, but actually it is, it's a lot better. And it's like, it's a. Very well, I think
Sophie: it's of my chore. It's more tender,
Ben: much more,
Simon: much more. It's a, it's a great day.
Sunday hung over film when it
Ben: comes. Exactly. I'm going to, I'm going to blame
Sophie: it on, is it a great hungover film? Because I feel like you could get nauseous. It's going to say like this, the second sequences are like, as
Ben: person who's afraid of flying. There you go. There was definitely moments in the film.
Getting like sweaty hands being like, oh Jesus Christ. Like my girlfriend starts because we went to see it on Monday night. She turned to me before and she's like, are you not going to be like really nervous watching this film? Because like you hate flying. I was like, none of that, I'll be, [00:45:00] he'll be fine. I watch, I watch videos of planes all the time and that's fine because I'm not in, but there was genuine moments where I'm like, oh my God, they're
Simon: gonna die.
She's imagining like the flight sequences have made. It was like Ryan
Ben: Oh, could you imagine Michael R John Hamm's character being played by Mike O'Leary,
Simon: uh, Russell we've
Ben: removed the seats from the jets. You're appalling 10 GS with no seatbelts.
Sophie: Awesome. Uh, the ending has been solved. You guys are difficult to solve that wasn't, even though this one didn't really need them so
Simon: active skills.
Ben: And what we say is go see the movie yourselves,
Sophie: go see the movie. Uh, so if you made it this far, we liked the thing that you enjoyed the episode. So why don't you go ahead and subscribe to our podcast? Wherever you're listening. We'll be back in two weeks with night on earth from. Pronounce it for me, please.
Ben: There you [00:46:00] go. Not sure, correct us
Simon: we're wrong. Lots of get clarity
Sophie: on that, please. We're quite excited for this one and maybe we can do. Filmography breakdown from. I really love him. Anyway. Thanks so much for joining good evening and good night. I'll look a message from our sponsor.
Ben: Did you like it? Did you like it?
Did I like it? I loved it.
Sophie: I had no idea.
Ben: You milk a cat. I have nipples. Greg, could you milk me? Good morning.
Sophie: Oh, and in case I don't see you.
Ben: Good afternoon. Good evening. And good night.