Things get HEATED in this week’s episode. Dive in to hear us talk (and debate) about:
· What we saw this week: From HARD LOVE to Disney Plus’ MOON KNIGHT and Andrea Arnold’s FISH TANK
· The best post credits-scenes in film history: It didn’t all start with Marvel and we’ve got the receipts to prove it (thanks to you)
· The Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness ending: Breaking down the meaning of the Third Eye, Charlize Theron’s Clea and that awesome Bruce Campbell cameo
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Films and TV shows with awesome post-credits scenes that are mentioned in this episode: Ferris Bueller’s Day Off, Bridesmaids, School of Rock, Matrix: Reloaded, Avengers: Age of Ultron, Spiderman: Homecoming, X-Men: Days of the Future Past, Deadpool, Sharp Objects, Jaws
Also overheard in the episode:
Check out the wonderful programme from Odyssey, the biggest Chinese film festival in Europe, running until 10th of June with plenty of online/accessible screenings: www.odysseychinesecinema.uk
The Elvis Dead musical DOES exist and here’s all the deets: http://theelvisdead.com
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Hi, and the welcome back to the, that final scene podcast. My name is Sophie and I'll be your host for the next hour. I am joined by my cohost, Ben and Simon. How are you?
Yeah, we haven't seen this other since our first and last recording. Good. So you did that intro, so kind of soft and smooth. It was like we're in inside the actors studio. I know. I feel like I'm pulling up my scholars, your handsome boy. You're going to ask us. And what would you say to God when you meet her with the pearly gates?
Yeah. Very good. Yeah. Good, cool. Recovered off to the viewing. Oh really? Oh, got I guess, free to this. Um, Well, let me tell you a second about me because I'm very self-centered. So it's all about Sophie. I was thinking about this and there's a lot that has happened this week, but I feel like us launching the podcast.
That's probably been one of the biggest highlights of my last two weeks. So I want to ask, like, how has their reaction been for both of you? I mean, it's been good people that I've sent. I posted it on Instagram and I never post on Instagram. So yeah, it's gone really well. I got some really nice messages from friends who listened to it.
Um, people were very complimentary, but the intro and the outro. So yeah, that little bit Dan Simon. Yeah. He's blushing. Same color as his teacher, but yeah. I mean, the reaction has been great from what I've seen and the comments online on the Instagram page and you know, all the subscribers. That's really good.
Yeah. I got a couple of comments that we should edit it a bit more carefully, make it a bit shorter. Jesus laid down the hammer Simon part from that spring. Great. Cool. Of, of the two people who showed it to you, in fact, right. I think it's nice though. I think it's gotten a really nice reaction, which is good.
I was quite worried that obviously I think I said it might have said this last week, but me and Simon. Sophie, the Instagram page is yours. I was really worried that people were going to be like, who are those two idiots with selfie on the podcast, but actually there have been non non-common it's. I mean, it's, uh, it's interesting because I've been reading through every single comment and DM, and I also had a few people reach out to me that I know personally, and everyone has been super nice about it.
I was happy that your friend is a comedian cinema appreciated my prestige. I was really happy that he, uh, that he agreed with me. We should have Tim on the podcast at some point and actually go through our heartaches, which would be a very depleted. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. For me, one of the unexpected things of having a podcast is actually that kind of pressure of feeling like I need to know everything about everything that's happening in the world of cinema, which is on me and I need to do better, but got me that.
Anything. So the bar is low. Yeah. Yeah. I just watched this stuff. You tell me to watch. Cool. I'm an influencer officially, but the thing is like, when you think about the conduct of cinema was, uh, I was actually at the Odyssey film festival, which is the. Chinese film festival in Europe, they are premiering over 60 films until June 10th.
I want to say, and I was invited yesterday and I went with a friend and I saw a film. The commensory actually called hard love, which was very eye opening for me. It's following five women and specifically how the navigate their relationships in the context of marriage. And that hit home for me because all of them are in their mid thirties.
And I am almost 30. I'm like 29 still officially. But it's interesting because. That was 29, 29.
That was a 30th birthday. That was the almost 30, almost famous, almost ready, mean it's Simon. Come on. You can't get that. That is. Back to the film. So every single woman has different motivations, desires, beliefs. So they come from very different belief systems, but ultimately every single one of them wants to find quote-unquote love.
Right. It was very relatable for me because yeah. Nothing my thirties, but almost in my thirties. And then all of them were just talking about dating apps and the concept of having standards. And what does it mean to be single and you know, 35. And what does it mean for. You and your future in the context of having children and all of these conversations that I felt were quite hard-hitting, especially from coming from a region, like Tyna where things are very systematic in a way.
And like everything's very contained. So it was an illuminating watch for me. Great question. I think I bought the same. I think I, the same. I mean, I'm from Greece. My family's putting a lot of pressure on me to like, get married, have kids, and it's like, I'm having a really good time. I'm having such a good time.
So it did explore the family angle, which is much more intense in Tyna like you are considered an old freaking lady by the time you're 25 there. So it's really brutal. I think it's going to stick with me for a while and I would like to rewatch it just because it was so raw in a way. So it was an illuminating watch for me.
I'm going to leave a link in our show notes for our listeners to take it out. So that's my highlight. What about yours? Tell me what have you been wanting? I rewatched the first Dr. Strange in anticipation for seeing the second one. And I mean, I thought a very marveled centric week. I then finished moon night last week as well.
Which Sophie, I assume you've watched Simon. You probably won't have watch Moonlight have no. No. What did you, what did you think? Sophie? I have very mixed feelings about it because. It gave me one of the best episodes in the MCU university. That was episode five, where it talked about like either dread towels with trauma in a very creative way.
You know, that kind of emotional episode, which I felt like Oscar, Isaac was just incredible in that one. But then you get to the finale where you have like a VFX crocodile fighting it off with a Diane Tikkun skeleton. And you're like, And I wrote this giant hippopotamus as well. Yeah. I think I feel the same way about it as I do about a lot of the Marvel series at the minute in they're all six episodes long, and yet.
They go really slowly for like four episodes. And then they have to cram a lot into like the final two. I think one division was really similar for me, which is interesting. Cause we'll talk about that as well with Dr. Strange, but one division, like for me, felt so slow up until like the final two or three episodes and then it kind of go, it goes from like traveling along and like 20 miles an hour or two.
Okay. Floats to the floor and we're going at a hundred miles an hour and hour to get it finished. And it feels like, okay, we just need to. And yeah, I think I thought Oscar Isaac was great. I thought that Layla character, I really liked kind of her arc in it and becoming a superhero at the end as well, but it just, I don't know, it fell a little bit.
For me, I thought I just kind of threw out. I think I'd done necessarily now with the, the end Nate, like the buildup and the ending necessarily worked together maybe. And you got two whole episodes of, you know, the, uh, the, the, you know, the psychiatric hospitals stuff that kind of just feels like it's plucked out of nowhere, even though episode five, as you say is really good.
And Oscar, Isaac is brilliant in it. And it's a really interesting look at, you know, childhood trauma. You know, a lot of the TV shows are kind of going more into that, you know, one divisions and interesting look at grief. And Loki's all about like self-reflection and moon nights about kind of moving notes about trauma and how people deal with it.
But I don't know, it just, it felt so rushed kind of towards the end. And they really liked Ethan Hawke. And I thought he was really good. I thought he was a good villain, but again, it all just kind of felt like we were rushing up to, as you say, this massive CGI battle in Cairo between. Bird's skeleton than a giant crocodile that all kind of ends in about five minutes, like so abrupt, like you stole mine collapses in the matter of seconds.
And the fact that we have all, we have all these kind of, um, bread crumbs for the third personality that then all we get is that in an end credit scene for a show that we don't even know if they're going to get a second season. I mean, I read something from Oscar Isaac today saying that there are. The plan's website.
There's no plans to have a second one, even though it feels like, well, that should be it. And there's not, there's no plans to have the moon night in any of the other movies, which kind of doesn't make sense to me considering they're all supposed to be tying in together with a lot of Marvel movies at the minute and kind of Marvel entities.
I'm feeling like I'm watching them because. Well this podcast. No, no, just in jet, just in generalist, someone who's like developing, don't relate to that. I mean, w I know we're going to talk about Dr. Strange in a minute, but like, it feels like you need to watch everything in order to be able to keep up with the next thing.
It's like, everything is an ad for the next ad. So everything is interconnected. And then the stuff that I was saying to Simon on the way here, that like there's references and even smaller references and Dr. Strange that you have to have seen all of it. And at the minute with the Marvel. And the TV stuff.
I just kind of feel like I'm watching it because I have to, because I won't know what's happening in the next one. And it just feels a little bit listless to me. I don't know. Simon will have been watching something much more interesting. Yeah. Well, it depends on your perspective. I watched drop dead. Fred Funtown with Rick.
Male-female fantastic. Phil. I w you never seen it. Fantastic scene where you ropes dog peel and coach dog.
It's a film about an invisible friend. Dark and sad. And the, yeah, well, it's this girl who isn't, she's kind of dropped out. Fred was her imaginary friend as a child. And then I can't remember how we're kind of sets it or put she's older now. And he comes back into her life and it's Rick male and he just, he's this imaginary friend who causes chaos and all these in his kind of family center.
Yeah, she kind of has a bad relationship with her mum. And so invents this, this imaginary friend to get through it. That's very more nice. Yeah, actually. Yeah. So I watched that and then I watched fish tank. Have you seen that? I found it before the podcast. It's not shark tank, the Dragon's den spinoff in America, but I haven't seen it though.
I find it a really good film. If you like Ken Loach, it's very much. In that arena. It's the NSX. It's about neglect is a landscape of like booze and sort of broken relationships. And it's about a mum. That's bringing up two girls and she brings home. This guy played by Michael Fassbender. You know, she brings him into their home and then he's not here.
The ports to be. And then he, and the 15 year old daughter strike up this relationship. And it's kind of really conflicting because it's portrayed as quite a genuine relationship. Even, even though number one, she's underage and number two, it's really fucked up. I'll have to check it out. I mean, I love pretty much anything with Michael Fassbender in it, so yeah, she's incredible.
Oh, and the, and he plays, you know, an Irish banter in so much like myself. I can really relate. That's what happened with my LinkedIn Irish band area. And then I watched human traffic. One of my favorite films of all time watching films. Don't you? Yeah. I find it really comforting and really relaxing. And it's about club culture in the nineties, taking drugs, going out.
It's set in Cardiff and it's delivered through loads of monologues and. President has gone. Fantasy is a part of reality and we take the brakes off. We're thinking clearly, yet not thinking at all. And this feels right. We stop trying to control things. Chemicals through us will fluctuate. Is this brain damage.
We forget all the pain and the hurt in life. I really recommend it. If you want to get a flavor for the UK in the late nineties for clubbing, when I wasn't quite old enough to go out, but I really wants to go out. So as a way to attend. It captures like a mad night out really well. That's cool. Nice. Thanks for sharing.
This is a safe space.
No, no. Can I say something? No. What don't you get about it? Cool. So I would love to dumb to this episodes next segment, which is about our community. Right? So. Menai just wrapped on Disney plus, and then you have Dr. Strange, the multiverse of madness. So the topic of post credit scenes is back on everyone's radar again.
And I think in the context of like film, these scores, the necessity of post credit scene, and then its meaning is very interesting. So last week we asked people to tell us their all time favorite post credit scene. I would love for us to talk about our favorites as well. Shall we kick it off with some of the people's responses.
So the top comment, captain America's post credit scene in Spider-Man homecoming, Chris Evans, taunting the audience for actually waiting through the credits to see a scene. I really love this one. It's one of my favorite from the MCU. I believe it, it works because it goes far beyond fond service in a way, and it goes back to captain America's virtues and values that we all love and engages with us in a way that's very personable.
Here to talk to you about one of the most valuable traits a soldier or a student can have patients. Sometimes patients is the key to victory. Sometimes it leads to very little and it seems like it's not worth it. And you wonder why you waited so long for something so. How many more of these, I don't read you remember that because this, for the Spiderman ones, for me to far from home, when sticks out more, because that's when we have the chaos of on a massive billboard in times square, it's a name to the world that this is who he is, and it kind of throws the whole universe into a bit of a tailspin.
It's like an infomercial in a way. I feel like when you see it, you're going to remember it. I kind of spins out the next one. We've got. Simon this for you, ferries, realer, as they are. It makes me laugh. Just thinking about it. You're still here. It's over go home. Go. We got that comment a few times that you're still here.
It's over go home. This is probably one of the greatest fourth wall breaks really happening throughout the film. Isn't it. And to have it continue into the credits is the perfect playing with the medium. Isn't it? One of the other ones in the comments as well, which ties directly into this is the Deadpool.
Yes. In which at the end of the credits of dead pill, he even comes out in the Ferris Bueller row and he does the same thing. He's like, what are you doing? Like, why are you still here? You're still here. It's over. Oh, you're expecting a teaser for Deadpool two. Well, we don't have that kind of, it fits perfectly for dead pill because dead pills, health thing is breaking the fourth wall as well.
Like throughout the film, me addresses the camera. Okay. And I also remember him saying, don't leave your garbage laying around, around move, go home or something along those lines, I suppose, just carries on. Does it? Yeah, he just, he keeps going. Yeah. So he makes a comment about like, what were you expecting Samuel L J.
Turn up in a cheeky little number. It's just perfect. But then they actually, you know, unlike the Marvel movies, which I'm sure we'll talk about in a second where they like give you like another character or something happens that he just says, oh yeah, in the next movie we're going to have. Which is this huge character in Denville.
So rather than just, you know, giving you something like a cryptic, he just goes, oh, this is what's in the next film. And lo and behold in dead pill to the main kind of, not the main antagonist, but one of the main characters is Josh Brolin playing cable. Yeah. Yeah. It's just brilliant matrix reloaded a couple of times.
So someone said the matrix reloaded. First one for me to kickstart the whole after credit scene at first, I was like, are we actually going to watch part three now? But it was just a nice little preview for the third film. And what's interesting about this. He was actually just a teaser trailer for resurrections that wasn't done before, just to give people a preview right after the film that you have just watched.
So I really liked the fact that it makes for clever use of post credit scene real estate, because like, okay, if. Hardcore super fan and you're sticking around. You might as well get, you know, a nice exclusive preview. I think that's very sweet because it's gone from that era of like it being a genuine surprise that you were getting up, collecting all the crap, watching Ferris Bueller in like, what is it?
1990 or something it's really old. Isn't it? And it would have been a bit of a shoe. And now it's just an expected part of a lot of the franchises. Exactly. Now someone else called out the main credit scene for, I want to say sharp object. So for those, haven't seen it, this so many TV series from the late zona mark, Valez starring Amy Adams.
It's a twisty murder mystery. And I don't want to say too much about it, but I love that. We asked that question before. When someone brought up the mid credit scene, I realized that I actually hadn't what stayed. So I went back the other day and I watched it and it was so good. And the reason that it works is because the show ends with a big reveal, but then cuts straight to the end credits.
So you don't know why this thing happened. And. Personally. I love that because I don't like when endings are over explained to me, but then the meat credit scene gives you like a five second teaser of what actually happened in a very violent, brutal way. It's almost like you're not allowed to see that scene.
And these wide works and very quickly, one more scene that people brought up was from Spielberg's Dawes. I mean, I know we just had a debate about it. Is this actually a credit scene or not? So someone said the film ends the credits roll over a long static shot of the beach waves. Rolling in. And at the very, very end, you see a tiny hopper in Brody making, making it back to the shore.
It's less of a post credit scene, more, just a credit scene. I did like the, one of the other suggestions was the young Sherlock Holmes, which I've not seen know Sherlock Holmes, but I went and watched the post credit scene. The final scene is an old woman being like asking. Uh, it's like a man checking into a hotel and an old woman asking for her signature and he signs the name Moriarty, and then it gives a closeup on the face and the whoever the actor is.
I'm not sure it is. Does, uh, like a WWE style rock, big, like eyebrow, just massive eyebrow raise as if it's going to go off his face. And then that's just, that's just, it it's like this man's more. That's it. Did he wet your pants? No, not at all because I haven't even seen the full film, so yeah, these are all great.
Now let's talk about hours. What's your all time favorite post credit scene. So I had to, when I thought about this, Oh, I'll go for the superhero one, because obviously the Marvel ones are just kind of an entity of their own. My favorite Marvel, when I think is the age of Ultron. Fine. I'll do it myself.
Where you have, we finally see Thanos. We hear him speak. I see him put on the infinity gauntlet and it's just this whole thing of, oh, she has. Okay, here we go. This is what it's going to be. Now we're fighting.
it's a big old glove that when you put six stones in, it has the power to wipe out all life in the universe. Good grief. Yeah. Another terrible unexplained explanation from me, but for red glove. Exactly it gives. Yeah. It gives anyone who wears a big Dick energy.
And this is a children's film. Yes. Yes. It says PG PG 13. Um, and so I really enjoyed that one. And then from a, like an outside of a Marvel. The old Pixar ones where they used to do the bloopers over the credits. So the wounds, I really clearly remember are like a bug's life and then one that I'd completely forgotten and about, you know?
And then when I started researching, this is the monsters Inc. One where. During the film, he says something like, put that thing back where it came from ours to help me and someone interrupts I'm like, what are you talking about? He's like, oh, it's, we're rehearsing this play called, put that thing back where it came from HERSA helped me.
And that's the lead song. And then in the post credit sequence, silly, it's like, they show them doing that play and they've like written songs for it. It's really Brittany, like it starts with silly introing. And now the company play ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this year's company, play starring, written and directed by Michael.
And produced by Mike was house. Oh, and they've just written all these different songs and it goes through, and it's this it's just basically and musical retelling of the film. Just watch that. I just thought it was, I thought it was genius. I think Pixar always do really clever ones like that. My favorite is also from the MCU.
So it's the post credit scene for X-Men days of the future past that sets up X menopause. So it's actually the reveal of the younger pocalypse. So you have the films credits and, and then the camera pans out to NC in Egypt. Right? And then you see a figure on top of a hill and there is a huge crowd bowing bowing to him.
And this guy is controlling like Diane blogs, apparently. Pyramid like baby boy was making pyramids since he was a teenager. Like I don't what the hell was happening. And I love the slow reveal because the camera kind of swings around to reveal his face. And you see a very young apocalypse and there is no audible dialogue.
You just like the, the setup they're just really well done, but that my friend. It's infinitely better than the actual, I was just about to say it's an app. It's, it's, it's a sick, when the post credit scene from the previous film to set it up is better than the actual film itself. Yeah. A hundred percent like Oscar, Isaac.
We love you. Like you did your best, but diseases that film Fassbender. Fantastic. Again, there has been Tarion yes. The Irish Bunbury he's uh, yeah, he's fantastic as Magneto, but my God that's him. It's a bad film, but yeah. In any case, spectacular, uh, post credit scene, whatever you say, I had it between school of rock, with the amazing kind of post credit song, kind of like your on actually were there in the, in the school where it says it's like Jack Black has set up his children's rock academy in his flat, and they're all playing the rock song out from his flat.
They're all jamming in different parts. Yes. Um, sure I have, but it's happy post credit scene. It's like leaves you with a massive smile on your face. It's really uplifting. Really positive chat. Black's life is back on track. The kids are happy. He's not gonna get fired. It's on his, uh, his, his, his nerdy friend is teaching guitar to like kids who are like really young and they're playing beginners.
Like that's a G almost. Yeah. And it's just, it just captures yeah. Niche. Nibley it just captures Jack Black's energy. I think it's just him or. Bye picked as my favorite bridesmaids where Megan's character and the air marshal make a sex tape, Melissa McCarthy. And it's her like talking into her sex tape camera that she's put on a shelf and talking about what she's going to be doing to, um, Marsha is actually her husband in real life.
And then she calls him like a naughty bear or something, and then she eats a sandwich off it and I've got a clip from it. Okay. Um, this is a tape 1, 1 9. Air marshal, John. And I's first sexual encounter. Is there a hungry bear anywhere? Oh, I hope I just happened to have this bear sandwiches. They're hungry.
Bear. Very hungry. You see how my flap opens? Yeah, that's a good looking bear. Yeah, that's a big bear sandwich. Do you want to buy that sandwich? It's meat and cheeses. It was quite excruciating. I was going to say it's. Grange and Janella, it's so much possible here. Real it's good. It's so much cringy or just the audio as well.
Like I feel like watching it, you're like, oh, this is when you listening to that. Just there is excruciating looking into like, look at my flaps, you know? Oh, God, I think we've taken a nose dive from talking about Sophie's documentary at the start to now, Melissa, McCarthy's making a sex tape with air marshal, John.
Um, I think there's an unrated version of that film that hasn't even ruder really. Sex video sounds in that one where she eats like salami, if his nipples and stuff. Cool. I mean, I can't think of a better scene to end this segment. Yeah. Should we take a quick break? Should we take a quick break? And then people give people a cool, another taste of Simon's lovely production, and then we can get into the, get into the final scene.
So you're going to be, oh, look at message. From our sponsor GI Jane to can't wait to see yo, Hey yo, what's up. Y'all want some of this without much further ado. Let's try to break down the ending or better yet. Endings are the latest MTU film. Dr. Strains in the multiverse of madness. Big spoilers ahead.
Obviously I was gonna say, disclaimer, please, for those listening, we're about to explore there's for the films. If you haven't seen it yet, please do. And then come back to the section of the episode to listen now, because I'm sure you're going to have questions after watching it. I know I did. I had some questions.
I'm sure you have load Simon. No, we're going to get to those, but now what I think would be helpful first is to break down. All the final scenes of the film, because just like any other Marvel film or TV show in a way you have three final scenes, you have what I would call the actual final scene, which is a very last scene of the film.
Then you have the mid credit scene, which is a scene that drops halfway through the credits. And then you have the post credit scene, which ultimately is the very last scene you're going to watch on the big screen when watching an MTU film. And this one is usually short. I feel like they follow a very kind of a specific kind of formulate and that mid credit scene is that's the important, that's the setup for the next film.
So, because they may be probably no. People won't stay through the rest of the credits, which Simon and I did, uh, when we went to see it and he's taking a deep breath, which I was worried, Ben might see me falling asleep at one point. And he slumped down in his chair at one point and I just thought, well, we've lost him now.
This is the same person who walked out of the cinema once when I went to him because it was too noisy. So I thought it was going to be bad. But, uh, the second then the end credit scene at the is normally like throwaway. It's a comedic scene. So with this one, we'll talk. Yeah, Bruce combo in Avengers. It's the shwarma scene in a, it's just a, it's more of a jokey, maybe a little bit of fun service for people at the end.
That's the one for, you know, the people who want to see at the end of what's going to go on. They know it's not going to, you're not going to have a major, maybe character from the next movie, but it just gives you a little bit of a treat for the end of it. And thus, the only one that the hardcore fans actually wait.
Yeah. To well, Trey, you mostly have, like, when I, when I was here on Saturday, I had a lot of people walking out after them in credit scene. Yeah, you definitely do. I've noticed that more now. I think when Marvel first started doing it and they had the trend of pretty much everything, I think a lot of people would have stayed until the start.
Like I remember seeing the first captain America and then everybody waiting and seeing Avengers and everybody waiting. But now. There's definitely more of a trend of, okay. I get the mid credit scene and I've seen what I need to see now. I know what's coming up in the next phase as they called them with, with Marvel, but yeah, there's definitely more of a trend of people just going, okay.
Maybe credit scene done. Boom. Yeah. Uh, so let's take it from the. Actual final scene of the film. Would you like to yeah. Break it down for us. He recreates that scene for Spiderman three, walking down the street. It's that we don't have asked Williams being possessed by deadites. Yeah, exactly. No. So, I mean the final scene is we have we've come from Qamar, Taj after the final, you know, the final confrontation America Chavez is safe.
She's learning at the learning Kamara Taj with, um, all the different wizards is probably something more. And then we just get this scene of Dr. Strange kind of coming out. Oh, cool. And happy and walking down the street. And then we get this bizarre, of course it's Danny Elfman scoring it because you get this like Metallica style guitar league of like right here.
And he like folds to the ground. And then. Third eye opens on his foreheads. Like we saw with sinister strange, a couple of scenes back kind of towards the climax who has a very violent death for Marvel films, getting impaled on a set of railings, which I was quite surprised that like, they kind of went, they let Sam Raimi kind of go on, like they push that PG 13 rating as far as they could with this one.
I, to this date, I still don't know what. Magic. They had to conjure up to get like a PG 13 rating. That doesn't sound. Yeah. For that film in general, it was quite startling at times. If I had like kids, I don't think I would take them. I have young cousins who like to see children now. That's not the twin.
That's not my big, my girlfriend's infrastructure. Um, no, I saw, I have young cousins who would probably who go, who liked the Marvel movie. I wouldn't, I wouldn't be advising them to go and see that because, you know, at least that middle chunk of the film we're actually, I, I personally think the film is at its best.
It's pretty scary. Like there are scenes where even, I thought I'm surprised Simon didn't even notice. There were bits where I genuinely jumped in my seat and I thought, well, Simon's going to think I'm a such a loser now. He's he aimed at children. Families for sure. Yeah. I mean, for me it felt a bit like watching a trailer for an hour and a half, and it had that level of intensity and stress in terms of the editing, the sound design, you know, the way you watch something that intense for that long, you just become immune to it.
One of the things that I think you mentioned the selfies that a lot of the things that people are picking up on with the final scene is the third all you thing. And why does he have the third eye? I mean, it seemed kind of obvious to me it's because he uses the book at the, you know, he uses the dark hole at the end.
He uses the, the book of the damned or whatever it's called and the same way that sinister strange or whatever they're calling dance. But a lot of people online were saying, what's the meaning behind it. And what is it? It's interesting because then in the post credit scene, it's unclear how much time we've dumped forward, because we then just see the third eye.
Again, my one issue with the third eye is I think from Marvel who CGI is normally really good. It's not, it's not very good. CJ, like first, some of the stuff they've done in the past, it was FA. NAF. Well, because he made me sit through all the credits to watch the final post credit scene. Um, I'd like to apologize to Framestore for the poor comment on CGI fair play.
Fair enough. But yeah, I dunno. I mean, I was just thrown off by the guitar lick. I was just like it, that just felt so cheesy to me, which I think that person was killed with musical notes. Yes. That would have been musical now. Isn't it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's the thing that the film is the film as a whole struggles with, in that, when it goes dark, it's really interesting and really good because it's what Sam Raimi is best at.
And then when it goes kind of lighter and Trippier and stuff like that, and you get weird stuff with the score, like the score is an interesting one in that. Um, cause I don't know if Danny Elfman's doing a Marvel film up until now, but. Yeah, it just kind of, it made me go lawyer. Why? Like, why is it like Metallica or just now in the room?
And they're just like shredding guitars and yeah, the score stood out to me. I feel like you wanted to add to the kind of uncomfortable startling fact of the whole final scene, which I found quite difficult towards, because it was very unexpected. Like this guy having. Headache, like in the middle of New York, he came up the street and it just felt like an unconventional way to end the Marvel film, because usually it's like a happy ending kind of, and then you have the mid credits, which kind of like sets up the next villain or whatever, but going back to the third eye situation, which was to your point, I agree the CGI wasn't it.
Wasn't great. I feel like you tried to get us to think about what is going to be the effect of the third eye on Dr. Strange, because we've seen from Wanda and Cynthia strains and dark hole can have super bad repercussions for whoever is using it. But with Dr. Strange, I feel like that's not quite the case.
I like that. I'm trying to make him out to be better than ever. At least this version of strange is better than everyone else. And I think so. Even though the third eyes seems to be the villainy in a way. I don't think that they're good with those restraints three. I don't think they're going to use that as a plot device to turn him into a villain just because it does feed that for one does well with the reading into it.
I mean, I've read a lot of Marvel comic books. Dr. Strangers never when I was massively into, but they're the third eye is more of like a, you know, a mystical power thing as well. Well, the eye of Agamotto was the stone is what he has around his back. But I'm not, I don't know. I mean, as you say, I think it just kind of, it almost felt like a post credit scene rather than an ending scene.
What, I mean, like, it felt like the kind of thing that you get in post credits rather than this is the end of the film, if that makes sense. And they kinda just went, okay. We basically have to post credit scenes, which we put first and they went. What did you think? Saya someone who's not who isn't, who isn't really a Marvel person, Fred, is that he'd been taken over by a battery, right?
Because it does look a bit sinister, but I feel like it would be very, it would be an exhausting narrative to redo what you did see with Wanda, which is basically her being corrupted by the dark hole. Do the same thing for Dr. Strange three, him being corrupted by the same thing, it does feel like a very repetitive thing to explore, but you're right.
Like the whole, like the whole scene, which is why I found very Horry and. Startling is because it's not like the third dies is your friend either, right? Yeah. It's I mean, you make them at home in the film that it signals evil because the only other character where that is. Just evil character who was going through multi versus killing or they're strangers.
Exactly. Yeah. So what I think is going to be interesting is like one of the things that I not, this is that at the mid credit scene where you have clear, so surrounds Carter show up and he's like, dude, we need to fix your mess because it again. Yeah. Yeah. So it's almost like they're trying to go exist with each other.
It's like a, almost like a venom situation. I feel like potentially like they're setting it up with the third one that. That using the dark hole has repercussions, but it's going to be something like it's going to be in, in this, this film is strangers struggled to commit. Deal with his relationship with others and whether he's truly happy.
And you know, there's that underlying thing of that question throughout the film of, are you truly happy? I feel like the next one is going to be more about like the internal struggle now he's, you know, of how does he battle this evil that's now in him? You know, it's manifested it. Didn't manifest himself really in like you notice with Wanda and sinister strains at the tips of the fingers go completely black.
It looks like they're almost like they have almost like frostbite in their fingers. It hasn't manifested himself in that way because he only used. For a short period of time, but I'd imagine there will be something in that using it, unlocks this or the thing inside of you that he will then have to grapple with.
In the future, what that is, we don't know. Some of the themes that were explored in the film was like the why Dr. Strange behaves the way he does. And you learn about his sister dying. Is it a bit of sympathy building for him? Well, from what I've read, apparently the third eye is bestowed to people that have good intentions.
We have seen so many different versions of doctors, trains being a dickhead, really? And this one is the first one. That's probably. Not as much it's still kind of is a decade up until the end of the film. Really. Like, I mean, as, uh, as, as Christine says to them in the film, you know, the one reason we could never work as you have to be the one always holding the knife, this whole film is about him.
Maybe learning that that's not the case. And he has to put other people, like, you know, America's clearly there to show him to be saved, to find others first. Yeah. Find her power. Yeah. Because everyone needs a man to be seen and they need to be America. Yes. Cool. I would, I would actually like to go by. To the mid credit scene where we are introduced to CLIA the future.
Mrs. Strange. Yes. Right in the, in the comics are married to tother and again, from what I've read. After the death of Dr. Strange event in the comics, CLI Isaiah, actually the key hero of the monthly title, which is interesting. So she's going to be a big part of the next installment for sure. I would like to ask you Simon, because you're, you're not an Marvel fan.
So my question is. What did that scene leave you with when you saw like, so Lisa and sewing are like being a bad-ass and be like, we need to fix your mouse causing a hole in reality, with this big knife in Caribbean bitch, like we need to do that should be her catchphrase. I mean, I, I can't keep track of who can do what well, Charlie's thrawn turns up wearing old purple looking like Eddie Murphy and roll or whatever w was, was roll, where he wore the whole purple leather suit.
And she just says, we need to fix your mass basically and cuts a hole in reality. And. Dr. Strange is like, okay, that he has created, like, he has created in a way. She's like, it's almost like seeing, you know, when you have a child and they make a mess and you tell them you made the mess, you freaking fix it.
Well, it seems to insinuate that he knows her though. Yeah. Which is why I mentioned about how far ahead is that post credit scene jumping. Yeah. He's clearly now comfortable with the idea of having the third eye and it's something he's aware of and can use. And also he doesn't bat an island, uh, set a clear coming through who doesn't bat any of the three, uh, when she appears and, and, and opens up, opens up a portal, whatever we want to call it, or a gateway to the dark dimension, which is what the whole.
First Dr. Strange is about, so it's clearly into, in, in, in the first Dr. Strange film, the villains called Dormamuu, who is like this giant kind of monster in this dark dimension than wants to basically consume the universe, but she opens a portal to there. And I think in the comic book, she's his niece as well.
So there's clearly that element as well. We're going back to that space. Could Dharma. Come back. You know, we trapped him in this loop until he let the earth go, but I'd be interested to see how they explain it in the next one of how kind of far forward it's jumped, because it feels like, hang on. Who are you?
Random woman dressed like a power ranger who wants me to go to this dark dimension with you? It would be fair though. If Charlie's heroin came out of nowhere, he was like, come with me. We need to fix your mess. I'd be like, oh, I'm on board.
VIN diesel just turns up behind her and just starts talking about family. And you're like, I'm in the car with phase one, two and three. We always knew we were building up to Thanos. We knew we were building up to this one villain who had one goal and it's one giant purple maniac who wants to wipe out half of the universe.
That is, that is a, if that is his thing and we knew that was coming, but with this. It's still kind of feels open the air to be, is it gonna be, could it be Kang, the conqueror, could it be Galactus? You know, there's lots of stuff that it possibly could be. And for me that makes it hard to kind of keep going back and watching.
Cause I'm like, what's the, what's the end goal here with Avengers. We knew what it was, but with these ones, I kind of, I'm struggling to see what that is. I trust Kevin foggy probably has a plan, but after that credit scene, I'm kind of like, oh, okay. So we now have the dark dimension again. And are we going to have Dormamuu again as an issue and.
Yeah, it just kind of all. His like colliding, like the multi versus there's lots of incursions happening, I think, as you said. So I like the multi versus, and interesting. The multi-verse idea is interesting because it kind of gives you lots of, and you said the Soviet gives you a lot of shit. Get out of jail, free cards.
Cause you can kind of go, oh, but it's the multi-verse, there's all these things. And like, yeah. But like that's too many things to try and sell to me. I think for me to get more emotionally. There's got gotta be more risk, you know, you have to really believe that someone's going to be gone forever. That's the thing.
Yeah. So when you have like 300,000 different versions review that. Really or becomes meaningless that we just saw like the whole Illuminati, just being there when they wheeled out Patrick's comedy wheelchair. That was, yeah, that was brutal. He's that? But, but then, you know, there are so many other versions of him and it's like, what does it matter?
But I think like, to your point, we do know that he sat to appear to the new. And there was like the quantum mania, I think kind of the conqueror is central pier. So perhaps like that's another piece of the puzzle is another is set up in order for those restraints three to have him. And I guess him an extension too strange and clear, it feels like there's a.
It's not as linear as the original three phases was. I mean, it's, it's hard to say this because the three phases of the MCU took like 10 years over 10 years. So it's, it's hard for me to go well in 10 years time, I could be wrong, but I still have to wait 10 years to watch all these movies to then come back and watch Dr.
Strange and be like, ah, the clear scene makes sense. Now, you know, I'm kind of like, it's disappointing as someone who has loved these movies, like end game. You know, one of the, one of those films where I genuinely like the bid and end game where they all appear had had a audible gasp. I remember just being like, and it was, and it was incredible because it was this buildup of all these films and all this time and all these connections with characters.
But at the minute, I'm just kind of struggling to find it. And maybe it's because the characters just aren't as strong, you're kind of struggling to see the long-term vision. I think it would be so much more interesting to have these, um, plan, to see the bit better and a bit more on the upfront, because ultimately that could be like the ultimate pay off could be secret wars and leading up Dr.
Doom, right? This is what people keep saying and people keep alluding to, and it's one of the most iconic comic book events in history. There's nothing that even hints that right now. So it's down to the superfan, just alluding to it because it's the only thing that makes sense after something as universal and cataclysmic is the word I'm it up.
Um, as a vendors. I think as well. The interesting thing about previous Marvel post credit scenes has been it's, especially with the Thanos ones. It was constantly alluding to something that the audience knew, but the characters didn't. So we know as an audience, that dinos is coming, we know this is going to happen and it's getting you excited for it because they don't.
And you're like, oh my God, what's going to happen. Now what's going to, what's going to happen here. And there's just not really that anymore. There's not that sense of, you know, with the post credit scenes for Dr. Strange, it didn't make me go, holy shit. As I mentioned, like my favorite one, that Tanos one where he puts the glove on and he says, fine, I'll do it myself.
And it's like, okay, Thanos is here. The Viagra glove one, the Viagra global and yeah. And he's ready to go and he's ready to take out the universe. That was amazing. And with this one, it was just, I just, I'm amazed at how generous you guys are being to this film. You're almost using the sense of what's to come as an excuse for how bad the writing was in this film.
I don't think the writing's bad in the film though. I think, I think it's unfair to say we're giving a credit because these films contexts. If you have seen all the other ones, you kind of see where it's coming from and why you'd give it the benefit of the doubt. If you, if you know, what's come before, when Thor Lovin thunder comes out, I could be eating my words and saying, okay, we're back on track.
Fantastic. Cause that looks incredible. But right now that made credit scene has just kind of made me go. Okay. Cause I watched something like Homeland. And I think that stands up on its own as a piece of genius. That's a very valid argument. The fact that you have to watch 300 films before Dr. Strains three and shows actually to get it.
That's. It's like these knees trying to lock you into their ecosystem. That's why it's called the MCU. You know, it's a, it's a universe. It's, it's not, it's not a one, you know, content, if you want single contained things, go watch the DC movies. Cause they're just, you know, go watch the Batman. If you just want kind of once-off stories, then you know, there's places for that.
But Marvel are trying to do something bigger. I guess the problem is they've been doing it now. The good part of, I mean, Ironman one, the first iron man is like 2008. Maybe he has nine, like 14 years ago. So it's a long time when it's a lot of characters, RESA. I think that's what they're struggling with as well is that they started off with like, they, it was so perfectly cast for S you know, for that original, you know, for Thor Ironman, captain America.
Even, um, getting rid of Edward Norton, even though he's a good whole can getting him mark Ruffalo and you know, it was so perfectly cast and you had all these films to get to know these characters. Uh, now we're just kind of into that second set. I don't think the transition has been as easy. I feel like we've killed you with like lots of superheroes of there.
So what about that? There is a, there is a post post credit scene and this one, which is just Sam. Doing what Sam Raimi does and putting Bruce, Bruce Campbell in all of his films, which I quite enjoyed it. And I liked the fact that it's a nod to evil, dead, to where he's fighting his own hand. I thought it was quite nice.
The film could have done much more of that throughout its source, or indeed brought a bit of humor. They could have done a bit more, I think. Yeah, but it does cater to a very specific audience. But I do like the fact that ultimately it goes back to horror fans and cinema fan. It is the very first time that you seeing fan surveys, but it's not for the Marvel fans.
It's for like Christina . Yeah. So that, yeah, that was very sweet. Thank you, summary. Uh, yeah, I liked it. I thought it was a nice way to end the film. I just love the fact that he does kind of that Tarantino thing of like, he just puts Bruce Campbell and everything, you know, he's in all the movies and it's just really nice to see it made me really want to read Bruce Campbell's autobiography actually.
Um, it's supposedly. Yeah. Was Bruce Campbell. He's been in a lot of samurai Amy's movies. So he's like the lead character. What's his Ash in dance. Yeah. Yeah. And he's the lead character in that, which Simon, Simon. And I actually saw a show a couple of years ago in Edinburgh called the Elvis dad, which was a guy doing a nutso dramatic retelling of the evil dead, but using Elvis.
And it is hands down. One of the funniest things I've ever seen in my entire life, it was an, it was absolutely genius, but yeah, he's been in a lot of, he was in the spot. He's been in the Spider-Man trilogy as well as kind of different characters. There was rumors that he wanted him to actually play Jake Gyllenhaal, his character.
If he had done a Spider-Man for, he wanted them to be Mysterio. I think he refers to himself as being less. Yeah. So his autobiography is called if chains could kill the confession of a B-movie actor. So we kind of just embraces that he, you know, he kind of embraces that like cult status of yeah. Did the movies, but I had a lot of fun and I really enjoyed it.
So that's yeah, that's going to be on my reading list. I think I'm going to order it off Amazon after this. Cool. Okay. I think we sold the ending again. You guys, we did it. Sorry, Simon. The nice final scene and we will be talking about is from the better multi-verse film. The apparently sensational, everything everywhere all at once.
It is currently breaking indie records all over the world. Make sure you, your it at your local cinema has, I'm looking forward to watching it this week and wrecking down the ending with you all. Also make sure to subscribe to our podcast, wherever you're listening. And if you enjoy this episode, please rate and review that final scene on Spotify or apple podcasts.
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