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Transcript

Saving cinema, Trump villains & the future of AI filmmaking (with Dario Llinares)

Unpacking the bizarre reality where outdoor screenings of The Greatest Showman sell out while actual good movies play to empty rooms.

I'd like to think I'm a reasonable person. I don't expect everyone to care about cinema as much as I do. But every now and then, when I see someone watching a film on their phone with subtitles off while washing dishes, a small part of my soul withers away like a plant that's been watered with coffee.

In our latest TFS episode, we were joined by

—fellow Substacker (hello ), educator, podcaster, researcher, and creative practitioner to talk about cinema's uncertain future and AI's complicated role in it. The conversation ranged from the latest films we've been watching (including some honest thoughts on Mickey 17 and A Real Pain) to deeper questions about why empty theaters are becoming the norm rather than the exception (this conversation hugely inspired my death of cinema series).

the usual movie & tv chit chat

Ben kicked things off by expressing his fatigue with "Trump-coded villains" in recent entertainment—specifically the way both Mickey 17 and Daredevil: Born Again feature antagonists clearly modeled after a certain former (and potentially future) president. It's beginning to feel less like commentary and more like a tired trope.

Simon shared his experience with A Real Pain, Jesse Eisenberg's directorial effort about a Jewish heritage tour. "I found it quite moving," he noted, highlighting how the film manages to navigate sensitive subject matter while maintaining genuine humor. The scene where Kieran Culkin's character convinces the tour group to participate in a potentially inappropriate photoshoot demonstrates the film's delicate balance—showing how his infectious energy can "galvanize them all and get them to become vulnerable."

Dario recommended Black Bag, describing it as Soderbergh doing what he does best—taking genre conventions and executing them with precision. "You understand that you're in the hands of somebody who knows exactly what they're doing," he explained, noting how Fassbender and Cate Blanchett are "effortlessly cool" throughout.

our ongoing cinema crisis

The heart of our conversation centered on the existential crisis facing movie theaters. With empty screenings becoming the norm and streaming services offering endless content at home, what will bring audiences back to the cinema?

"The current experience doesn't offer you before and after that is actually quite appealing," I noted, pointing out how theaters rush you out immediately after the film ends rather than creating spaces for discussion and connection. This type of experience—having meaningful pre-and-post viewing rituals—feels almost entirely absent from modern moviegoing.

Ben recalled the electric atmosphere of packed screenings: "When I was a kid and you go to the cinema and the whole cinema would be excited for what they're about to see. It was, like, throbbing." That communal experience—laughing together, feeling tension together—has become increasingly rare. The last time he experienced a truly packed theater? "Oppenheimer. And that's what, like, a year and a half ago."

We also batted around several ideas for revitalizing cinema culture.

ai & the future of film

The conversation shifted to Dario's fascinating AI video essay "Do You Want to Hear It Talk?" which explores how speaking machines are represented in science fiction cinema (Dario has written about it here). Using AI-generated visuals and narration, the project envisions a future teacher instructing students about historical human-machine relations through classic film clips.

"I wanted to make this video and try and make a character that was—I mean, the conceit is this is a teacher from the future, like, a hundred years from now, who is teaching humans about how to get on with machines," he explained.

When asked if AI might eventually replace filmmakers, Dario expressed skepticism: "We're way, way, way away from that." While certain aspects of production (visual effects, sound correction) are being made more efficient through AI, we're nowhere near computers creating feature films without human guidance.

my favorite takeaway

I loved listening back to this quote from Dario: "Maybe the very notion of entertainment is going to change completely... Maybe that's because of what's going on with AI in films and television. People are like, 'You know what? I just want to communicate with another human being or watch another human being being human,' and that's now going to be our next cycle of entertainment."

Until next time, I'll be the one in the back row of an empty theater, stubbornly believing in cinema's future while enjoying the temporary solitude.

Find Dario's work at his Substack Contrawise:

And through The Cinematologists podcast: https://dariollinares.substack.com/s/the-cinematologists-newsletter-archive

His new interview series Cinema Body, Cinema Mind explores our physical relationship with moviegoing:

https://dariollinares.substack.com/s/cinema-body

timestamps

00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction

05:08 Dario's Journey in Film and Academia

09:56 Cinema and Television Reviews: Mickey 17 and Daredevil

15:04 Exploring Themes in Recent Shows: White Lotus and Adolescence

22:09 Celebrating Performances: Kieran Culkin's Oscar Win

23:13 The Art of Casting: Creating Chemistry in Film

24:31 Entertainment Value: The Appeal of Spy Thrillers

25:39 The Need for Pure Entertainment in Cinema

29:27 Rethinking the Cinema Experience

33:07 The Social Aspect of Watching Films

37:17 The Diminishing Cinema Experience

39:36 The Impact of Streaming on Cinema

41:59 The Loss of Medium Budget Films

42:12 Rethinking Cinema's Value Proposition

45:13 The Cost of Cinema vs. Streaming

48:51 Creating Unique Cinema Experiences

52:34 The Future of Film and AI

01:00:28 Exploring AI in Cinema

01:12:54 The Evolution of Sci-Fi Perspectives

01:14:14 AI and Human Creativity in Filmmaking

01:17:56 The Future of Film Credits and AI's Role

01:20:59 Student Reactions to AI in Filmmaking

01:23:55 Hopeful vs. Dystopian Scenarios for AI

01:25:25 The Changing Landscape of Cinema and Storytelling